posted 12-20-2000 01:37 AM               

That said, I’ll move on to Biggers and Betters. One comment Brad made toward the start of the interview made my heart skip a beat, since it echoes feelings I’ve had for a long time: “T&A is what is dragging this industry further down into a mire of mediocrity – its continued use will surely mark the death knell of what could be a beautiful and respected art form.”

Brad, truer words was never spoke.

A good friend of mine who lives in Columbus, OH, buys all his comics in two stores. The better of these two stores is far away, and he doesn’t have a car, so usually he has to go to the closer place, which doesn’t have the best selection, but it’s pretty good if you know what you want. He took me there once.

In the rear of the store, behind the counter, was possibly the largest selection of pornographic magazines I’ve ever seen. I was surprised and embarrassed, and I bought my comics without making eye contact with the clerk and left quickly.

Now, without getting into a dissertation on pornography – my belief is that there’s a proper time and place for almost everything, including masturbatory fodder – I really want to convey how much this shocked me, and really ticked me off. I went into this place to buy comics. The fact that this proprietor thought than my interest in comics went hand-in-hand with a desire to look at women spreading their legs insulted me. The fact that he, as a purveyor of one of the greatest and most misunderstood art forms around, would do something to perpetuate the image of the lonely, single, Chalupa-slurping, Doctor Who-watching, Harry Knowles-resembling comic book geek made me ashamed to have given him money. It’s funny on The Simpsons. In real life, it sucks.

But the more I thought about it, the more I realized what a wise business investment this was for the guy. He probably has hundreds of customers that buy X-Men or Gen13 along with the latest issue of Asian Poontang Weekly or whatever.

It’s because the industry supports it, and some really well-drawn and well-written comics support it. For Christmas, Dave gave me a copy of The Return of Barry Allen. It’s a terribly engrossing story, and gave me – a non-Flash reader – tremendous respect for the character.

But right there in the middle of the book are several gratuitous drawings of Wally West’s girlfriend, showing lots of leg and abdomen and some decidedly pert nipples. It bugged me. Such a great book doesn’t need tits to sell. Give it a rest.

You could say, “Well, TV does the same thing. Movies do the same thing. I mean, have you seen Angelina Jolie as Lara Croft? I mean, the woman’s body is inhuman. I would give my left arm just for one little…”

And I would cut you off. Because comics, as an art form that is still developing respect among the mainstream, has the potential to be better than that. Comics can invent themselves fresh among the nonbelievers, and say, “Look! We’ve got good stories and great drawings, and we don’t need to show you D-cups for you to enjoy it!” Unlike Tomb Raider.

Also, comics do it to an extent that movies and film can’t. Jennifer Aniston can only look so good. Without tens of thousands of dollars in plastic surgery, she can only go so far. But that Witchblade woman, on the other hand, can look as absurd as Michael Turner wants her to. And she generally does.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to get on a soapbox here, and for me, there’s an undeniable pull toward drawings like the ones in Image and Top Cow comics. There’s a big part of me – mainly, the part between my navel and my knees – that watches Friends because I like looking at Jennifer Aniston’s soft parts. It’s pointless for me to deny that, but it doesn’t control my life.

Comics are better than that, and the artists that draw huge breasts and tiny waists for a living should keep that in mind.

But the ones who should really remember it are the buyers. If you like a comic for the artwork and the story, great. But if you’re buying it for the T&A, think twice. Go to Seven-Eleven for your porn. Download it. Steal it from under your friend’s mattress. If you’re too young, go see Tomb Raider.

posted 12-20-2000 01:40 AM               

Chris’ response to Dave’s question about “balancing fidelity to history with the needs of the story” sums up the merits of this effort much better than I could hope to:

quote:

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“[W]e hope, that through exploration of these themes that we stir in the readers a need to question the story in such a way that the historic lesson is made clear. It’s ambitious, but it’s where our head trip as artists happens to be right now.”

---

I can’t tell you how much reading that lifted my spirits. As someone who writes ad copy and materials designed for public consumption, I am constantly being told to “bring the message down a bit” to make sure we reach the lowest common denominator. Even though I’m a relatively powerless marketing rep writing for a limited market, I’m well aware that this is the norm in mass communications these days. Unless, you’re aiming your message at the so-called “upscale” market, you better make sure you “dumb it down.” If you don’t, you run the risk of sounding “too condescending” to your audience. Hmmm . . .

The idea that the Red Star team is actually setting the bar higher and banking on the fact that their audience will embrace all of the aspects of the title is nothing short of inspiring. This team has something that many comic creators (and for that matter, many media moguls and politicians) don’t have and that’s faith in the audience.

posted 12-20-2000 12:30 PM               

I just wanted to reiterate that this was my favorite interview to participate in so far. Just as your commentaries have always been incredibly On-Point, the interview you conducted was really a great chance for us to share some of the real constructive aspects of the work as a whole.

It's great to have the support of people like yourself, Kevin and Pattie. Reaching out to literate people is what comics can and should be doing.

Pattie, our goal as a company for 2001 is to hit our marks on time every time. It's in our heads every day-- I would go into detail as to why the schedule went nutty this year, but it's some personal stuff that would quickly fall into the TMI category.

Thanks! Please consider yourselves welcome at theredstar.com-- gonna be some big changes going on over there as well

Chris

(Edited by Dave on Chris' behalf to fix an error.)

posted 12-20-2000 02:05 PM               

I don't want to sound like too much of a raving fanboy here, but what struck me about the interview is how much Team Red Star has something they feel they absolutely have got to say, and they're going to say it, damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead. It's really heartening to see that attitude rewarded.

posted 01-03-2001 04:22 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin Ott:
But right there in the middle of the book are several gratuitous drawings of Wally West’s girlfriend, showing lots of leg and abdomen and some decidedly pert nipples. It bugged me. Such a great book doesn’t need tits to sell. Give it a rest.

---

posted 01-03-2001 07:20 AM               

Girl One has a body most guys would consider fantastic -- alternatingly slim and plump in all the right places. Her nudity becomes an issue twice in the book. First, it's when she reveals her secret to her partner, Irma, a middle-aged woman who looks a bit more like Roseanne Barr. Irma takes it well, joking and laughing and forgetting about it when the next crisis arises. Of the two, Girl One is the more levelheaded and Irma the more impetuous.

The next time her secret is brought up is when Kemlo Cesar, a superintelligent dog, reveals that he knows she's naked because, like all dogs, he's colorblind, and therefore can't see her pigmentation permutations. He tells her it's no big deal, since he's only attracted to other dogs, and her body holds about as much sexual interest to him as my springer spaniel does to me. (That is, none. Don't be gross.) Later we find out he's lying about it.

This is one of those situations where I know there's something going on, and I know there's some subtext to be discovered here, but damned if I can't figure out what it is. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Maybe Girl One is just a run-of-the-mill woman who happens to be fabulously attractive. Those do exist -- I've seen plenty of them. And guys do drool over them - not pleasant, but it happens. (Attention, women: If anyone ever gives you the chance to hear the sorts of things that get said in all-male college dorms, say no. You really don't want to know.) So maybe it's just a reflection of real life.

posted 01-03-2001 07:08 PM               

Also, Gossett does have a track record in this industry -- he was penciller on some of Dark Horse's popular Tales of the Jedi miniseries about eight years ago. (God I feel old.) But you know what, even if he didn't, I don't mind him coming in and saying that the way the comics industry is doing things isn't working -- 'cause it's not. This is one sick pup of an industry, even when some of the best work in its history is being produced. I admire Gossett and Kayl for saying that, and I don't feel they really blasted anybody specific too hard. Except for Top Cow, which probably still deserves a few cracks even though they seem to be trying to grow up.

As for the political views: here I disagree pretty strongly. First of all, Gossett spends a good deal of time talking about certain elements of the story symbolizing one idea or the other -- it's not just a political rant. Furthermore, I deliberately wanted to pull the curtain back a little, and talk to them directly about their beliefs. Not everything they believe gets filtered into the comic, although the political and social commentary is quite strong. So I wanted to talk about that as well.

One thing I wish I would have pressed harder on is asking them who else they think is doing it right at this time. Gossett recommended Preacher and that was about it, but I'm pretty sure there's more.

posted 01-03-2001 07:23 PM               

But while I understand your feelings to some degree, Bri, remember that Gossett and Kayl were just responding to questions an interviewer posed to them. As far as being arrogant and self-righteous, well... When you're right you're right, and I don't think there's any need for the creators of The Red Star to to sugarcoat what they're saying, especially when they're doing it to strengthen the industry.

posted 01-04-2001 06:50 PM               

As for the exploitation of women -- I don't think it's the only thing holding comics down now, but it's not helping. Add in the fact that a lot of the best selling, most visible titles have crappy stories in them, and you have a major problem. I agree that both men and women are idealized in comics. But there aren't male swimsuit and lingerie specials in comics, there aren't special variant covers with nude male characters, there are few, if any, male characters whose well-endowedness (look, Ma, watch me make up my own words!) is the main selling point, and there are relatively few stories, if any, that seem designed to highlight males in suggestive poses. You can't say the same about women.

(Strangely enough, I just bought DC's Legion Archives Volume 6, which includes the first Adult Legion stories that show Superman going forward in time to interact with the Legion after they had grown up -- many of the male heroes there were balding. Very interesting contrast with today's comics.)

Also, comics collectors have only had the image they do now for a relatively short period of time, I think -- maybe the 80s and 90s. Before that, comics routinely sold in the millions and were purchased, read, borrowed, lent, etc. I would bet that the current stereotypes of comics readers rose as comics collectors -- the guys who had to have every issue of Uncanny X-Men or whatever -- rose to the fore. And I really think the rise in the titillation factor in comics over the last 20 years has hurt us. Not as much as the crappy stories and the overreliance on superhero concepts, but it's hurt. So when a story that has some depth and meaning behind it AND has strong women characters as its protagonists in a non-exploitative way, that's a double bonus.

That said -- you're right, Red Star isn't the only good book out there right now, even if it is still in a distinct minority. So far, much of the stuff that's been reviewed here so far is darned good reading, and that's good to see.

(Edited to fix coding and because somehow I never finished my thought when I first posted.)